by Rachel Hunter
The Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees at its Feb. 18 monthly board meeting heard complaints from concerned property owners regarding the village’s local law regarding sidewalk snow removal.
Village of Gouverneur Mayor Ronald McDougall encouraged the public not to enter a debate, but the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees allowed over an hour during the public comment period for the local residents to air their long list of grievances against the Village of Gouverneur’s Local Law No. 1 of 1999, which rescinded Local Law No. 2 of 1980, and reads in short as follows: “Every owner or occupant of property containing and/or adjoining a sidewalk within the village of Gouverneur is responsible for the removal of snow from said sidewalk if same fronts and/or adjoins a street, highway or other public road in the Village of Gouverneur. If snow shall cease falling by 5:00 pm, it shall be the duty of the occupant or owner to clear the walk of snow the same night. In case snow falls after 5:00 pm, it shall be the duty of such occupant or owner to clear the walk of snow by 8:30 am the following day.”
The first resident to address the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees was Joseph Nardelli, owner of 82 Park Street in the Village of Gouverneur, who asked the following: “Why did it cost $25 to send a notice on a half a sheet of paper with one stamp and one envelope? It was a $25 (administrative) fee on top of the $232. I have no problem paying the fine for the snow removal. I admit my guilt, but I think $25 for that notification is totally outrageous.”
“You have a right to your opinion,” Mayor McDougall said. “I don’t mean to debate, but some people think the $25 fee should be a lot higher. The people here, this is the public sector… and it all costs money. It all starts with people calling in to complain, turning you in. In your case, it was the United States Post Office. They turned you in for not doing that. So anyways… we have a lady here who has other things to do. There’s the mailing and the documentation of the before and after picture of the violation, and then there is the matter of getting back to the person who complained. In this case, it was the Post Office. It was easy because, as I understand it, 14 of them or something like that… and some of them went as long as a week. And so the administration fee is a part of the law.”
Village of Gouverneur Deputy Mayor Charles Newvine then said the that local law said that the Village of Gouverneur “can pass a charge at a minimum of $25, but can charge up to $100 and can also tack on the cost of what it is to remove the snow.”
“So, if the Village wanted, it could send me a letter for $100 for the letter,” Nardelli asked.
“That is correct, plus the cost of snow removal,” Deputy Mayor Newvine said.
“That’ll be a subject of the budget if it is going to be raised,” Mayor McDougall said. “Some people want to raise it. Some of the rest of us think $25 is enough. But you have to remember the person that is doing that, just like any other full-time village employee, they are getting healthcare and they are getting a lot more than $25 an hour…”
“It’s totally absurd, and I am protesting,” Nardelli said. “It is ridiculous… $25 for a half-page letter and an envelope and a stamp, totally ridiculous. Even the cities – Schenectady, Albany, Syracuse – they just came out with a fine and there is no administrative fee. I mean, what gives?”
“I didn’t make the law,” Mayor McDougall said.
“Yes, but you can reverse it too,” Nardelli said.
Luke Perrigo of 517 Smith Road in Gouverneur later in the public comment period asked: “Back to the sidewalk issue with snow on the sidewalks, how do we determine, who we enforce that to and when we enforce that law? I have read the law, so I am curious as to when we enforce that law… there’s not an inches requirement in the law. There’s no requirement there, so I feel like the law is kind of vague as far as that goes. I did go down and I can show you a picture of the Village sidewalk by the hospital right now. Snow stopped before 5 o’clock, according to the law, that snow has to be removed tonight. Will the Village be calling someone on an overtime to remove that snow or can I file a complaint now and we hire the contractor to come and take care of that? I am just curious how do we enforce this to certain people and not other people.”
Mayor McDougall told Mr. Perrigo that the Village of Gouverneur had someone to take care of the sidewalk in question, and then gave the floor to Village of Gouverneur DPW Superintendent TJ Simmons who said the following: “What snow,” asked DPW Simmons. “The dusting we got today?”
“Well, there’s ice on it too, and according to the law it should have been salted to remove the ice,” Mr. Perrigo said. “Honest, I’m not picking on you, TJ. I’m more picking on why we are enforcing this law because of a complaint list filed on one person and not the other. If you drive down Main Street and you’re speeding, generally you don’t have to have a complaint to get a speeding ticket.”
“Unfortunately, like you said, the law is very vague,” Deputy Mayor Newvine said. “We discuss it every year. We have somebody come in, question us on how we enforce it, and how we choose on who we enforce it to, and there really isn’t a set parameter. When we receive a complaint, they call the person that we contract with. Now, the way that I see it, in the same local law that you read, if there is a snow and it stops before 5 o’clock you have to clean it up that night. If it stops after 5 o’clock you have until 8:30. Well, 8:30 is the wrong time for me because school starts at 7 a.m. Then it talks about salt or sand or ashes, which means it is outdated… nobody uses ashes anymore. It talks about a village administrator being the one to enforce the law. We don’t have a village administrator…
“And also for me, I know that we have talked about it, and I have talked about it with (Village of Gouverneur Clerk/Treasurer Barbara Finnie and Village of Gouverneur Deputy Clerk/Treasurer Kristina Ayen) the day that the complaint came in from whoever it might be –whether it is the Post Office or whoever – if there was no snow that day, it seems to me to be a mute complaint. If there was no snow on the day that it came in, how can you expect someone to remove it?”
Mr. Perrigo then asked, “If the Village isn’t following their own law, how can you enforce everyone else to? Tyranny isn’t always on the Second Amendment. It’s on laws in general and if you are forcing people to comply by law that your local government isn’t even complying with… it seems a little ridiculous to me.”
“I would politely disagree with you,” Deputy Mayor Newvine said. “It is still vague enough that there are no inches, like the lawn. If there is no set limit, then it could be any. The fact remains that there is a public law to remove snow at a certain time. A certain depth of snow is not there. Everyone gets a letter in November. It’s in the paper when we contract, all that stuff. It doesn’t mean that it is not enforced by the Village because when a complaint comes in, we call a contractor. So, it is not like we aren’t enforcing it.”
Mayor McDougall then asked for the next public comment. Up next was David and Hilliary Perrigo of 479 County Route 11 in Gouverneur.
“A bill was sent in the mail to myself and my wife on February 6, 2020 concerning our apartment house on the corner of 74 N. Gordon St. and 90 Barnes St. that we were charged $206 for a bunch of old sidewalks on January 31, 2020. I brought to you guys, the board members here and even the public, concerning this and asking you to please forgive this bill and to furthermore to personally to notify myself when you intend to charge a hardworking taxpayer this fee. This is not our primary residence. In fact, this is one of four. We pay someone already to shovel the sidewalk. He’s done a very good job for the last three years. It’s never been a problem. We’ve of course assumed that he was still doing the job that we paid him for. We ask you to review this policy that the Village of Gouverneur has. We do not drive by daily to see if this has been shoveled, as I said he has done a good job for three years. We understand that this policy needs to be in place.
“Again, I understand the law. I think it is vague and needs to be revisited and be revised but we ask that you would contact us personally, as I know for a fact that you do other taxpayers through nepotism and let them know before they actually get the bill. A phone call or maybe a warning letter personally addressing us to make sure we have adequate time to address the situation. As I say, if you don’t live there, it’s kind of hard to know what’s going on, especially if you have several properties.
“We try to keep our home and our apartment houses in excellent condition. We do not take this condition lightly. I take it as an insult to my integrity. That’s the kind of person that I am… I feel that a letter or a phone call making us aware of our property would be just standard procedure for everybody. I know it takes place with people. In a matter of fact, it happened in front of me last week I saw this take place.”
“It didn’t snow on January 31, 2020. It didn’t snow two days before that. It didn’t snow that day. It didn’t snow two days after that. Even as a property owner, no I didn’t drive by. When it snows, I know it snows. Snow removal is what I do, you know what I mean? The way this law states I’m not home in time to get this cleared. You could hit me with a $206 bill every single time because I am at work. I mean it just can’t happen. I guess yeah I could hire somebody, and I had somebody employed and yeah I took care of that and he’s no longer employed. My wife’s been doing it herself with the kids in the van after she drops the other two off at school…
“Now, I am going to reiterate how it was approached to me… In the notice that comes in your water/sewer bill, nothing in it says you are going to be charged $25 service fee. Nothing in it says you are going to be charged $1 foot. It does say you will be charged a minimum of $25. But there is nothing that says that you will get a $206 bill for a five-minute sidewalk… That’s absolutely ridiculous.
“You take someone like me who has a corner lot. There needs to be a cap… We’ve had a very light winter, so I don’t see how this could have been this big of an issue. I understand that probably no one here saw that sidewalk, and that it was just a complaint that was filed. I get that, but I had no idea that this was taking place. I need to be notified. I am the property owner. If you are going to bill somebody $206, the property owner needs to be notified and given the chance to remove that snow. That is my main argument here.”
David Perrigo then relayed to the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees his experience of coming into the Village Office to discuss the charges, and then went over to the sidewalk in question, did some measurements, and discovered he had been overcharged for sidewalk snow removal by 41 feet.
“Not only did it not snow, I was overcharged by 41 feet, which at $1 per foot is ridiculous,” he said also mentioning the administrative fee. “It’s happened to several people and they are hardworking people that own businesses in Gouverneur. I know for a fact that nepotism is taking place… “
Mr. Perrigo added that it took two weeks to get his hands on Local Law 1 of 1999, and it was suggested that the local laws be more readily available to local residents. Village of Gouverneur Trustee Shelly Simons-Washburn voiced her surprise that village’s local laws were not published on the website – villageofgouverneurny.org.
“If you don’t like me, you can blow my doors in,” David Perrigo said. “There’s got to be a rubric to follow. This is not going to do it. This is not going to cut it. And I don’t want this to be, “He spoke his piece, he’s done.” I will come the following board meeting and the following board meetings as a proud person that lives in Gouverneur. I am happy to be here. I want to make this Town, Village a better place. It’s what I go to work for every day. We’re good taxpaying people, and I’ll render to Caesar what is Caesars all day long – but it has to be in the legality of what makes sense.”
In response, Mayor McDougall said, “Generally speaking, we are, I must admit, pretty lax on enforcement, not only this but lawns in the summer.”
Continuing his addressing to the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustee, David Perrigo said the following: “The Village of Gouverneur closed my sidewalk in on my other apartment house (corner of Clinton St.). I even drove my tractor from house to move that snowbank… Generally, I wouldn’t say anything about it. I would just take care of it. But if we want to do things this way… It is a mountain of snow frozen in there. The only way to move it is with a piece of equipment…. So again, I charged you $115 and $25 service fee, total $140. Totally different property. Totally different situation. I don’t know if you are getting my point. Stupid law. Stupid reasoning… I don’t want this to be, “You know we will let you know in a month.” I’m here because there is a problem. It needs to be revised. It needs to be fixed, and I want an answer from you right now when it is going to be done and when it is going to take place so I can be part of this. It needs to happen for the public, for me, for all the people that it has happened to before. I know a couple people that has had it happen, and they are fired up about it. I am not the only person with this issue. I am the only person that just didn’t take it on the chin like everybody else does. I’ve said my piece. I would like a rebuttal.”
After some discussion, the village trustees made the following comments:
“It needs to be looked at it, and that may be something we do at a later date,” Trustee Troy Besaw said. “I see where you are coming from.”
“We talk about it every year,” Deputy Mayor Newvine said, referencing former visits from local business owners George Macaulay and Chalaine Archer. “We don’t do anything about it… It’s a local law that needs to be revisited. It’s 21 years old. But to alleviate this situation here, is it okay for us to alleviate that because the local law says on a snowstorm it has to be done on a certain time… when there was no snowstorm the day that complaint came in? It wasn’t snowing the day that complaint was made. The way the local law reads is if it is snowing that day at or before 5 o’clock, they have to clean up that night. If it is snowing after 5 o’clock, they have until 8:30. It wasn’t snowing that day… period, point blank, simple. It wasn’t snowing the day before. It wasn’t snowing the day before that. It wasn’t snowing the day before that. So, to have a complaint the day it came up to the Village... It wasn’t snowing on that day, so how can we ask him to clean a sidewalk if it wasn’t snowing?”
Luke Perrigo then asked: “I am concerned about what’s going to happen if we leave here tonight and tomorrow, I leave through town and complain 100 different times on 100 different situations… I am sure I can come up with 100 in a couple hours of driving around.”
David Perrigo asked: “You take care of me, I’ll take care of you. We won’t have an issue again… if you take care of this law. That’s my full expectations here… As a taxpayer, as a person who lives in Gouverneur, I am looking out for that guy, this guy. I am looking out for everybody in Gouverneur. I will not stop until we – the taxpayers, you guys -- find an answer. And I want an answer tonight. Not to fix this, but an answer for me.”
“This local law needs to be reviewed, and revised so it is a little bit more flexible,” Mr. Nardelli said.
Deputy Mayor Newvine then asked: “Can we take care of these complaints filed on a day that it didn’t snow?”
Attorney Henry Leader then said the following: “I don’t know the answer to that. I don’t know what complaints there are other than Mr. and Mrs. Perrigo’s. I read the law, under Paragraph One, saying that every owner/occupant of the property is responsible for the removal of the snow from the sidewalk. The next paragraph talks about the snowstorm because if it snows people can’t get right out there. I think that is what is being advocated. If a sidewalk has snow cover for a week, how long did it have snow… I don’t know that. The only thing I do know is the amount of frontage should correspond to whatever a bill would be.
“I remember having an apartment myself on Clinton St. and the state plow plows Clinton St. and I was fined half the time and I got it out the other half and it was terrible. It was tough luck… I think every case has to be looked at individually, and I don’t know…
“You should endeavor to be fair across the board. The point about notice and giving the homeowner to hear it is a good one, and I would recommend the board look at this as well. Going backwards is more tricky. I don’t know if there’s other similar people. I don’t think the board could make that decision tonight. I think you need more information. I also think the board needs to consider the bill to the frontage.”
After some discussion with Mayor McDougall and village board, Attorney Leader said he would do some research before the next village board meeting. “I’ll investigate this between now and the next meeting and to see if there is a resolution, because if there are 14 similar complaints, it is worth more investigation,” he said.
Luke Perrigo then asked: “What about the contractor that is doing the sidewalks? Has he provided you guys with insurance? Can we have a copy of that, seeing how he serviced that property and then if something comes back in the next three years of a slip and fall we have insurance for that day?” Deputy Mayor Newvine promised to have a copy of that insurance included with the Village’s response back to the Perrigo’s next Friday.
Gratitude was extended to the village board for listening as they presented their case. The next meeting of the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees is to be held on Tuesday, March 17, 6 p.m., in the municipal courtroom.