by Rachel Hunter
St. Lawrence County Legislator District 5 Harry A. Smithers II (R-Gouverneur) gave his first in-person report to the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees on Tuesday, September 15. This was the first meeting the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees met in-person since the COVID-19 pandemic. Other meetings were open to the public via teleconference.
Legislator Smithers said the following in his report: “I was appointed to take (Former St. Lawrence County Legislator Henry Leader’s) place the first of July, so I am relatively new at this. A lot of this stuff has been kind of routine, talking about maintenance, bridges and accepting grants. A couple of unusual things being the resolutions to support law enforcement, and to oppose making law enforcement officers provide their own liability insurance.
“We haven’t really started talking about sales tax, which has been in the news. My understanding is that the first meeting between the Mayor of Ogdensburg and the County representatives is scheduled for Thursday (September 17) morning. What I know about this is what I have seen in the paper and was given to me from the Town Board, which I read over. And it piqued my interest in sales tax because I didn’t know that much about it. So I would recommend to you, if you would like to know about it… this is a very readable, understandable document that is readily available about sales tax in New York State. It is dated 2015 but not too much has changed, and if you are going to talk about that later… I do have some concerns about what has been labeled final sales tax proposal. It is kind of strange because we haven’t really started negotiating yet for next year, other than to extend current distribution of sales tax.
“The key question seems to be what people would consider a fair distribution. Different people would obviously think different amounts would be fair – What is fair to the county? What is fair to the towns? What is fair to the cities? A couple of things that might be worth talking about is the sales tax was initiated to help the County be able to meet their obligation for Medicaid, and what I have been told is that they haven’t been able to meet that until they raised the sales tax from 7 to 8 percent, back five or six years ago. Since then, the fund balance has grown a little. It sounds like a lot, but it is really a smaller portion of the overall budget… Also, I was told that when they did raise the sales tax, they lowered the property tax to give some of that back to the taxpayers.
“One concern I have is where (Ogdensburg Mayor Mike Skelly) says a separation occurs between the City and the County, the County has no obligation to distribute any sales tax revenue to the towns and villages. Whereas, this (document) says frankly the opposite. I’ll just read from page 11. It talks about the option that the City has of pre-empting, which is an option. They would see how much revenue they would generate from that.
“I am willing to listen, maybe they do deserve more. I don’t think anyone on the legislature wants to give the towns and villages, and the City less money than they get now.
“Most of the counties do share some portion of the sales tax with the cities, towns and villages. In 2015, the revenue of the 56 outside of New York City did retain all of it. The other 46 shared with the towns, villages and cities. And it says that counties with cities that pre-empt are required by state law to allocate a portion of their sales tax revenues with cities other than the pre-empting cities and towns in the county. So, I think you should have that information, and maybe you can ask (Mayor Mike Skelly) why he said that… because I don’t understand that.”
Legislator Smithers then asked the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees: “Do you have any questions for me?”
Village of Gouverneur Mayor Ron McDougall then said the following: “A couple comments. First, I am glad you are here. Do you have any report or anything? If you don’t that’s fine. So (Village of Gouverneur Clerk/Treasurer) can get you a copy of the report that (Former SLC Legislator Henry Leader) and his predecessor used to supply the Village. I am not sure what they do in DePeyster, if they get anything or not. But Henry would provide us a monthly report orally and written report. They are usually the same for the Town of Gouverneur Council and the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees… We’ll give you some help and provide you with some of the reports that Henry and before that Travis Dann used to provide to us. If you don’t have one, we understand. We don’t have to have one, it is just more paperwork, but on the other hand I listen to most of the meetings anyways… So, it’s fine. You are here.”
Legislator Smithers then said the following: “I’d just like to say on sales tax we are just getting started, we haven’t really talked about it.”
Mayor McDougall then said the following: “From my perspective, that’s troubling. You haven’t started talking about sales tax yet? There hasn’t been any executive sessions on sales tax? Nobody mentioned it last night. Nobody mentioned it a couple weeks ago… Harry, I’m not a fool. Henry was talking about sales tax since the day he took office almost, and he left because of Travis Dann. The County has had many meetings with the City of Ogdensburg, going back a year, maybe two. The County themselves has spent several years planning this… and you probably haven’t heard my argument yet. But we got three fiscal Conservative senators, very important, Betty Little, Joe Griffo, and Patty Ritchie. Sales tax was raised by 33 percent. It wasn’t 7 to 8. It went from 3 to 4. The State gets the other, the rest of the first 4. It has been that way for a long time.
“It came in with Rockefeller actually, the sales tax when it started. It was just at 1 percent and it was going to go away after a while. Well, it’s been 60 years or whatever it has been… But nevertheless, I don’t want to lecture you on sales tax. Everyone in this room has heard me talk about it before, but it has been going on and on and on. I find extraordinary that you come in here and tell me that nobody has said anything about sales tax. Just today, SLC Legislator Dan Fay who they haven’t seen in months over at the town and village office was coming in, fishing around or whatever, and he was going around and saying: “Gee, when are you guys getting together with Ogdensburg again?” And he talked about the last meeting they had and the meeting before that. Over in Potsdam, another local legislator, their legislator went around the Potsdam office, and they hadn’t seen her in quite some time. I know they probably told you what to say...”
“No, they didn’t,” Legislator Smithers said immediately.
Mayor McDougall continued: “But please don’t say it in front of Henry, who has been through this and through this and through this. I haven’t gotten over the fact that… whatever happened to him. He’s got great credibility, and the issue is sales tax. But I find it interesting that another legislator in another part of the county would approach the City of Ogdensburg, saying: “They have not treated you right.” Maybe we should go back to where we were before and everybody gets the same. That’s why Henry left office, but enough on that… I am all done.”
“But I am not. I’m not telling you something that is not true,” Legislator Smithers said.
“People talk, Harry,” Mayor McDougall said.
“And I can’t tell you what we talked about in executive session,” Legislator Smithers said. “I can tell you that we haven’t discussed anything that the Mayor of Ogdensburg has given to the County… The first meeting to talk about that is Thursday. It has been in the paper. You have talked about it, and shared what (Mayor Skelly) sent around to the towns, but that is kind of a backdoor approach to negotiation. Our current agreement is to continue the way that it has been distributed… that is what is in effect right now. So they are going to be negotiating for down the road… Yes, sales tax is ongoing, but I am not standing here telling you lies.”
Mayor McDougall then said the following: “Sales tax has been widely discussed, even if it hasn’t been with you… But anyways, I am glad you did find your way to come in tonight. It’s our first meeting… You haven’t provided you report yet, which is okay. We can help you there to know how to give a report…”
Mayor McDougall then asked Village Attorney Henry Leader: “Don’t you wish you were still county legislator? Probably not...” Attorney Leader shook his head as the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees continued to discuss the business matters before the board.
Later in the meeting, Mayor McDougall said sales tax was one topic of discussion at the SLC Conference of Mayors meeting. He also mentioned the Town Supervisors had met the week before, and one topic of discussion was sales tax. “In particular, the narrative that was put out by the City of Ogdensburg, the facts and figures behind it. I know I am being tentative but… Is that the final resolution? I don’t know. I know that the City of Ogdensburg is scrambling to go at this two ways… either so that they and the towns and villages can get a bigger percentage over the last penny in particular, as we did the first three cents, and have for years. They are also, barring the negotiations breaking down, they can pre-empt. They may go that way. I don’t think the County wants that, I’m not sure. But I don’t think they want that, and I am not sure the City of Ogdensburg wants it. But for decades the City of Ogdensburg along with the villages and towns have been joined at the hip. We negotiated together to lobby those three senators I mentioned, and also some Assembly people but the difference then was that those two senators were in the majority, and there was one Democrat Addie Jenne who was in the majority in the Assembly. We worked at that really hard, and we joined up with the county legislators, mayors and supervisors in the county… we all joined up to lobby those senators to grant a 33 1/3 percent raise in sales tax. They did that, somewhat begrudgingly, but they did that… But they also tried to do the opposite, to take more in negotiations with the City of Ogdensburg, more away from the towns and villages. So it became a stalemate. There was some Home Rule legislation that was approved earlier this year, dealing with the one-year extender. That is the situation we find ourselves in. The different mayors, village boards, town boards are left scratching their heads as well. There is going to be a meeting in a couple days with the town supervisors along with the Chairman of the Town Supervisors Association… things are happening rather quickly. And if it is possible, Harry, I apologize if I offended you. It is possible that nobody has talked to you about sales tax. But I have, and so has (Town of Gouverneur Deputy Supervisor Eldon Conklin)… Maybe the legislators don’t say anything about sales tax to you. But I’ll lend this to you: The representative of Lisbon was good enough to go to town board meeting, Dave Forsythe, and reported that what you called a little fund balance, he figures is over $34 million, and expects it to go to $40 million if things keep going… What’s the reason for that? There’s lots of reasons… He was good enough to report that to Bill Nelson and the town board. Also again, I thought it was $31 million. I listened to the audit and I thought it was $31 million. You heard the same thing as I did, probably. Anyways, they are finding money in these bad times… The other thing that certain mayors talked about and town supervisors… a lot of people are questioning: “We have a COVID problem?” Gee, what’s going on. The three percent raise to the executives… everybody voted for it, I think. When you are talking $100,000 and a 3 percent raise. “What COVID? What bad times? What is going on?” I understand contractual, but this was not a contract vote… But when you are out making $100,000 like some of these department heads are, at 3 percent, that is $3,000. When you are making $30,000, that is $900. But when you go to the store to buy the loaf of bread… it costs the same. It doesn’t matter what your income is. So anyways that is my kick at the cat…”
“I am asking for a motion to support Ogdensburg with what they have done, and what they have been doing for us for decades. They have been supporting us, and I am damn glad they are doing it, I’ll tell you. One of things I have said, and I have said in here, is that the County wants us to pay the increase in Medicaid. They are looking for towns and villages, local governments, to pay for the increase in Medicaid. That’s what is going on. So this is in negotiations… it doesn’t mean it will be the final answer.”
The Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees then voted to support the City of Ogdensburg. The Town of Gouverneur Council made a similar resolution the week before, at their monthly board meeting on Sept. 8.
When discussion was sought during the vote, Village of Gouverneur Deputy Mayor Charles Newvine said the following: “I think this is a step in the right direction. I think what Harry was trying to say was that negotiations haven’t been going on, discussions have been going on for quite some time. But the actually negotiations haven’t gone on, and they won’t until Thursday. I think this is a step in the right direction. I don’t think that the County is going to agree with this, but I think it is something that has to be said to get the negotiations to go ahead. I think we are looking at a 28 percent increase in sales tax revenue here in the Village of Gouverneur, 28 percent to the Town of Gouverneur, and 27 percent to the Town of DePeyster. And a $6.5 million loss to the County. Those are the numbers, so I think it would be hard to have all county legislators agree to that. But, like I said, it is a step in the right direction to at least get the negotiations more discussed than they have been in the last four or five years.”
The motion was received by Deputy Mayor Newvine, seconded by Village Trustee Troy Besaw. There was no further discussion. All were in favor, and the motion carried.
The next meeting of the Village of Gouverneur Board of Trustees will be held on Tuesday, October 20, 6 p.m., in the municipal courtroom.